Musicians Collaboration Studio
Virtual Music Studio => Finished Works => Topic started by: BassPlayer on December 29, 2013, 03:53:06 PM
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This tune is a few firsts for me
First tune of mine which has vocals.
First tune where I solo on guitar
Many thanks to all the participated and provided feedback.
What Was
PVD - Lyrics
BassPlayer(David Bellizzi) - Composition, Bass, Guitars
docmidnite - Guitars, Vocals
Catfish - Keyboards
(v1)
How long is it
When you long for someone
How much time passes
Before the pain is done
(v2)
How far is it
When you've gone too far
With no one to guide you
The road is long and hard
(chorus)
I don't know the answers
It's sad, like a nomad
I wander ..... because
I don't know the answers
I don't know who does
All I want is what we had
All I want is what was
(v3)
How close is it
When you've gotten too close
When you can't breath
And you wander pillar to post
(v4)
How long must you listen
Whether up close or afar
Before you can hear
The cries of a dying star
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Awesome, guys! The mix could use a little more work, but it's still nice to listen to. Henry, you get better with each song you sing!
Regards,
Steffen
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Really nice...vocals and lead sound great for a first attempt.
It was only spoiled by the poor MP3 conversion, lots of artifacts - maybe you could post a higher bitrate version ?
CD
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I'm not so sure that it's just the MP3 quality, Mark. (Especially) the drums sound dull/muffled and indirect, some levels need to be adjusted, the vocals sit outside the mix, and the rooms don't quite match.
With a good mix this song would really shine. All the performances are great.
Regards,
Steffen
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Thank you for the excellent feedback.
Some of those artifacts are from me having to run the vocal tracks through vvocal. Henry ran his vocals through the cubase autotune plugin and it introduced too much vibrato for my taste. I ran them through vvocal and painstakingly removed the vibrato and fixed the pitch by hand.
The drums are straight out of the Jamstix plugin though a compressor plugin.
I'm a little out of my league with mixing because I'm just starting out and I also have hearing loss. Can you elaborate on indirect?
I frankly don't know how you guys get it to sound good on headphones vs monitors vs car stereo vs computer.
I agonize over the levels. I basically start with the drum levels and get that sounding good to me, then I add the bass followed by the rest of the instruments and then vocals. I'm probably using way too many plugins.
Any specific feedback like "at time x the guitars are too loud" would be very helpful.
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Some of those artifacts are from me having to run the vocal tracks through vvocal. Henry ran his vocals through the cubase autotune plugin and it introduced too much vibrato for my taste. I ran them through vvocal and painstakingly removed the vibrato and fixed the pitch by hand.
That's strange - VariAudio (the Cubase tuning tool) does not add any vibrato at all. You can rather reduce the vibrato with it. But it does cause artifacts as its algorithmic quality is not really comparable with Melodyne. VVocal is not that great either - running both VariAudio and VVocal on the same track will inevitably cause audible artifacts.
BTW, the latest version of Sonar has ARA support and comes - if I'm not mistaken - with Melodyne Essential.
The drums are straight out of the Jamstix plugin though a compressor plugin.
You mean you compressed the stereo drum track and did not process the drums individually? That would explain it. :)
I'm a little out of my league with mixing because I'm just starting out and I also have hearing loss. Can you elaborate on indirect?
I think it's a combination of using an (in my ears) inadequate room and inappropriate EQ'ing on the drums. The snare is the most important instrument right after the vocals and should cut through the mix (unless you mix for a genre where that's not desirable).
I frankly don't know how you guys get it to sound good on headphones vs monitors vs car stereo vs computer.
Here is on recipe: Do NOT mix in stereo! If you mix in mono, and all the instruments have their place in the mix and are clearly audible, the mix will work in stereo too. I usually set up what I call the "basic mix" (with just the important instruments) first without any EQ, compression or effects. Just faders and panning. Then I fit in the rest of the instruments - and then I switch to mono before I actually start mixing the baby. I do occasionally check the mix in stereo, but most of the time the monitor channel is in mono mode.
Another important aspect is the level you mix at. The louder you mix the less reliable will your ears be. If the mix works well at a low volume level, it will also work well at a louder level.
Small speakers don't have enough energy to translate the low frequencies. So to make the bass and kick cut through, you'll have to give them enough mid range (1 - 4 kHz, depending on the instrument). At the same time you should get rid of those frequencies that they do not need. The bass is usually sitting above the kick, so get rid of the low frequencies to make room for the kick (a low cut up to 70 Hz is often appropriate). The frequency range from 200 - 800 Hz is often responsible for muddiness. The kick does not need any of those frequencies, and the bass often can do without it too. But listen before you blindly cut frequencies (BTW, when removing/attenuating a frequency range with an EQ, it will affect the next frequencies too and change the sound!).
Make sure that the instruments have a consistent level! Use volume automatization and compression to achieve that (in that order)! Otherwise you won't be able to make them sit in the mix.
Use delay instead of reverb, when possible (because reverb makes the mix sound diffuse) - and don't start using effects too early in the mix. Only when the rough mix is done should you start filling up empty spaces with panned delays. Then use reverb to create an impression of depths. Use longer pre-delays on the reverb for sources that should appear closer to the listener! If I want to achieve a natural sound, I try to work with three instances of the same reverb, but with different pre-delay times, to place the instruments at three different levels in space.
I agonize over the levels. I basically start with the drum levels and get that sounding good to me, then I add the bass followed by the rest of the instruments and then vocals. I'm probably using way too many plugins.
I'm sure you do. I did that too when I started mixing. :) And it took me quite a while to realize all my mistakes (I mean the ones I have realized - I'm sure I still make mistakes).
Two of the best advices I remember were the mono mixing rule and focusing on the basic elements of the mix before adding all the fill stuff. And to make the individual tracks sound as good as possible in solo before fitting them in the mix! The big guys make it all sound good at the recording stage, so you don't have to use an EQ or compressor at all to create a great sounding rough mix. In homerecording we usually have lots of problems with the seps because most of us don't provide good recordings, so we must do all we can to edit the tracks and make them halfway usable before we actually start mixing.
Any specific feedback like "at time x the guitars are too loud" would be very helpful.
I think it's rather a matter of consistency, as explained above. If you get a solid level on the individual tracks, it should be a lot easier to get a well-balanced mix.
Regards,
Steffen
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Wow thanks for the info. I will give that a try. I remixed with just my headphones. Here is the raw wav https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/65082093/what_was_fm1.wav
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nice tune.
i like the lead guitar work throughout.
nice job.
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Remix with just levels, and panning and a bit of compression on the master bus
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/65082093/what_was_fm2.mp3
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I like it :)
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I love the feel of this and Doc, you sound really, really good. You gave the song and lyric the time to develop. The harmonies and bass remind me of CSNY.
Thanks for letting me be involved.
Paul
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Thanks for the comments on my vocals, VERY appreciatted!
@Paul, I did what I love most: coming up with a melody :)
Everything fell in place just like that, I barley changed a word... when I remember right ;)
Mix: Well, I like the mix. There may be technical aspects and some taste aspects as well but in generall, to me , it sounds warm and just fits the mood of the song.
Mixing: A constant learning process that never comes to an end. Steffen covered a ton of basic stuff whcih should be applied with each an every mix.
The only minor thing I have to "critizise" is: On my original demo I had a delay repeating the main lines of the end chorus... cake´s icing... ;) I miss that but that´s also a matter of taste. The song works pretty good without it ;)
In particular I love that bass solo!!!
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The new mix is nice! The snare still could need a little lift around 1-3 kHz and some air around 8-12 kHz, and maybe some reverb to glue it with the rest.
BTW, I think for this song I would not compress the kick and snare individually but send a little bit of both to a bus for parallel compression.
The snare also could use a little more attack. If you compressed it, try opening it up by increasing the attack on the compressor and/or reducing the release rate. And I would not apply more than 3 - 4 dB of gain reduction on it.
The bass solo is great, but that part still sounds a little burried. Not much, just a little bit of EQ, and perhaps some distortion before the EQ to add more upper harmonics that will make it cut through the mix.
But really nice so far! Which equipment do you use?
Regards,
Steffen
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I Love this!!
Great musicianship all around!
The bass solo is pretty cool (nice touch), and the guitar chords supporting it remind me of Guthrie Govan. 8)
Very, very nice!
Frank
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Nice warm feel and good groove guys.
Great vox melody Doc.. as usual,.. catchy.
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Thanks for all the feedback. It is much appreciated.
@Steffen
When I followed your advice, well most of it, I found that the mix played well on almost everything I played it on.
After hearing it in a few cars, I think the bass was a little low.
I also agree that the bass solo was a bit buried.
I ran the bass through a amp plugin (see attached) and to me it sounds much better
For control of the drums I'm still figuring out the Jamstix interface and features (see attached)
Looks like
1 Kick
2 Snare
3 Toms
4 HH
5 Cymbals
I can probably create two outputs for this and route the kick and snare out one and the rest out another
For bass I have my trusty Carvin Icon 6string and combo Carvin AMP
I used the $100 Marshal Mics
@Henry
Can you give me an example of the delay, Happy to try it, I just didn't remember hearing it.
I don't think I changed the delay from what you already gave me on the vocal tracks
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@Henry
Can you give me an example of the delay, Happy to try it, I just didn't remember hearing it.
I don't think I changed the delay from what you already gave me on the vocal tracks
;D sure!
http://www.musicianscollaboration.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9997.0;attach=49363
d´load it and just liste to the last chorus ;)
It´s basically just a one-time-repeating delay, repeating the 1st line of Chorus and that "whyeyey"... ;)
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OK got it, I see what I can do.
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Another nice tune. Love the mood.
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Great work everyone! Sounds really cool. 8)
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Really cool. Love the guitars. Cool melody.