Musicians Collaboration Studio
How To => Production Tips and Tricks! => Topic started by: CurtisDowney66 on January 18, 2007, 10:45:32 PM
-
I have spent so much time on this mix and it is killing me. I am not sure, but I think I am starting to go backwards with it. I think this mix is decent, but I am just not sure anymore. If I could get some good ears, and maybe some different opinions, maybe I can finish this one in the next few months ::). So, listen to it, and tell me everything you hear, good, bad, ugly. The parts are all there, and I don't think anything needs retracking, I just need help with how to make the parts sit better. Maybe it's good to go now, but my ears keep telling me something is not right.
Curtis
Travel On Mix 5 (http://biscu.com/users/curtis.downey@mchsi.com/CollabFiles/TravelOn5.mp3)
*Updated Mix*
Travel On Mix 6 (http://biscu.com/users/curtis.downey@mchsi.com/CollabFiles/TravelOn6.mp3)
*Updated Mix again*
Travel On Mix 7 (http://biscu.com/users/curtis.downey@mchsi.com/CollabFiles/TravelOn7.mp3)
-
First of all I agree with you, I don't think anything needs re-tracking. You have good sounds on all the instruments and the vocals.
The 2 (minor) things I hear are
1. The rhythm guitars are slightly too hot. I would try them down 1 or 2 dB or eq a little presence out of them. I'm only talking a very small amount here.
2. I don't like the snare drum sound. I think it's way too thin or sharp sounding. It may benefit from a 200Hz boost and a 5k cut.
I don't hear anywhere in the song where the vocals are too hot, I think you have them sitting well.
The above is just my opinion and is real nitpicking, I think the song is great and you are real close to a good mix.
-
Thanks David, exactly the types of things I want to hear. Anyone eles?
Curtis
-
I'd love to be of some help. But I really can't hear anything wrong. Maybe a few things I might do differently. Like bring the distorted guitar up a bit. But that is just a matter of taste. I sounds pretty darn good at the moment.
Dan.
-
curtis,
I am replying from a trio...so canlt listen until sunday. dave has got great ears so I am sure his suggestions are a good place to start. I'll listen when I get home. By then you will probably have a new mix.
Nick
-
Hi, Curtis.
I like this one and think the tracks are fine too [with one exception]. Only my opinion, so please take it with a pinch of salt.... The snare needs to be "beefier"... perhaps a different one could be used?? The rhythm guitars are a little hot to my ears, but lowering the levels to get rid of the peaks will probably be to the detriment of the lower-middle tones - so dynamically you may need to play around with this just to take the "bursts" away. I like the backing vocals and think they could be brought up a bit - or the rest of the mix brought down to let the vocals breathe a bit more. On a lesser note, not completely sure on the bass at the moment .... to me, a little "warmer" - but that would intetrfere with the overall dynamics you have - so maybe a rethink on my part. I also like the "spacy" feel you have on your lead guitar... that's a lovely tone there!!! All-in-all its a good mix but the few refinements suggested would make my ears happier. Hope this helps.
Rab 8)
-
Curtis. Never got a chance to listen last night. I will tonight. I was spending too much time on the mix clinic song. I do remember that the previous mix had the guitars a bit hot (or maybe too bright) as well so it sounds like these guys have got some good comments. 8)
Just listened at work. Vocals sound GREAT !!!
-
Thanks guys, this is the type of info I needed. I will try to take a bit of the high end out of the guitars, and see what I can do with the drums. Noone has mentioned the kick yet, but that is one thing that buggs me, I just can't get it to where I want it either. I agree I need to beef up the snare a bit also, I had it deeper before, but it was too much, maybe somewhere in between.
Curtis
-
Ok, I updated the mix on the first post, I left the other mix for reference. I reworked the snare, the kick, and the toms, tried to beef them all up some. I also took a little high end out of the 2 guitars. Let me know what you think.
Curtis
-
Curtis, I am fairly new at the mixin' game and I only have listend to the second mix but it seems to me the rhythm guitars should be turned down some from 0:47 to 1:17, 1:34 to 2:04 and finally from 2:36 until the end.
They seem to be smothering the vocals and then the lead at the end.
As far as the kick goes, I do not hear anything wrong with that and personally I would turn it up a hair after the intro but that is just my taste.
HAZ
-
Hi, Curtis.
Kick is fine and sits nice with the bass guitar. Bass is sounding a bit warmer this time around - and with fresh ears this morning, I'd say you've got it nailed. The rhythm guitars are still just a bit overpowering. It's just a dynamics problem where it's the little "bursts" (mentioned in my last post) that needs addressing - but, hey, it's perfectly passable. Just a thought..... maybe if the rhythm guitars weren't so wide apart and their levels brought down just a tad, that may help. The mix is pretty "wide", so I don't think that would compromise the overall balance too much ?? I hear the backing vocals are up a bit too which is good. The sonics are very (and I mean VERY) good on this song and an immaculate lead vocal and lead guitar just adds to that quality sound you have. Very impressive - and it's on my MP3 jukebox ;).
Hope this helps again.
Rab 8)
-
That's a better mix Curtis. I think you got it beat :)
-
I will absolutely listen to both takes in the studio today. From the comments it sounds like you got it pretty good. I believe I gave you 2 hard panned L & R guitar tracks. Would it have been better to give you 2 stereo (or mono) tracks that you could have panned yourself?
-
I will absolutely listen to both takes in the studio today. From the comments it sounds like you got it pretty good. I believe I gave you 2 hard panned L & R guitar tracks. Would it have been better to give you 2 stereo (or mono) tracks that you could have panned yourself?
Don't worry about that at all Dave, the panning you did makes no difference, I didn't hard pan either of them in the end, but they are still spread out a bit. If I need to bring them in a bit, it is easy to do with the tracks you gave me 8).
-
There are so many reply here.
Here are many current reply...
Brina's vocals bck are sitting better and the bass is right on the money. Sounding and playing wise.
Love that ride. The snare is not the problem. Ken plays well and a great set. If you have the separates you can do a lot with the snare to better the feel. I agree a good sounding snare is important. I got to say this mix is starting to sound better... But still the vocal is kind of barred in that section I keep referring to. The music stands out so much. Not talking about the parts where the vocals are doing the bck.. where they do lead. Maybe you should have harmony vocals with those bck Curtis vocals to filler her out some.
I just heard the whole thing and I like it. Can you post the vocal APE'S so I can inspect them. Maybe I can help. Post the lead vocal APE 1st. I like this song and I want to help. Not sure if it's on the project thread. Did not look at all. You say you don't like the vocals. I do think they are strong.. Sung well but can be
maybe mixed or made to sit better in the mix. Only that last part stands out to me. I believe the mix can be made better... by balancing out the music more and then the vocals will sit better. I know you are good at mixing Curtis. Maybe you heard it so much you need to stand back.
Well it's true what Dave said about the processing of the guitar tracks. And the snare I agree can be sharper. I snare does not bug me when I listen. I mix is clear.. And I love the led guitar work too. It's just that there are a lot of things in the song and that Shape of the sound at those spots are over shadowing the vocals a little.
But it's not such a major problem. Just dbl track the vocal there by copying it only in that section. Then drop the main bus down a touch and adjust the vocal there. Panning only in that section will give the vocal room to breath. A lot of talk right. Nick could fix this with his Beethoven hands. He He.
If I can see that vox ape. If not don't worry about it.
Here is a thought:
=============
If you have a zip of the entire project and I can inspect the tracks I would be willing to. Maybe can process them and send them to Nick for you package well. That's about all I can offer. That is if Nick is willing to mix it. I am busy and I know you guys are experienced but none the less I thought I would offer to help.
Tubes
-
Curtis,
very smooth mix..My personal taste is if the guitars are that loud...drums have to be there. Now that said, at least 3 people on this site will tell ya I mix drums to hot! So take that at face value. Tone wise, I think you have everything sounding great.
I don't hear any harsh tones, yet everything cuts.
Nice job!
Nick
-
First I will say that I really don't know what you are saying Tubes, I don't know which "section" you are talking about with the vocals. It is hard to understand exactly what you are talking about sometimes, I have to read what you said a few times before I understand, and I am not sure yet what you are trying to say, or even which mix you are listening to...lol. I am not complaining, I am just curious as to what you are saying, because I am interested. As for getting you the vocal APES, I am not quite sure what you think you can inspect? Like I say, it is all kinda confusing how you try to explain it. Thanks for the listens though, and if you can try to explain it better, I may be able to understand you better.
Nick, thanks for the listen also. As for the drums, I have had alot of people tell me that I mix the drums too hot also, and I am trying to get away from that myself, and when I listen to it, I kinda want them louder, but I am never sure anymore if I should... :-\. I think that Dave was hinting that he would like to hear the drums a bit hotter also. I think maybe just the snare is what needs to be hotter though? I am getting close on this, I know it.
Curtis
-
I figure you have the drums on their own buss. Maybe a tape saturation kinda comp or something. Regardless, I like them a little hotter...but that is just me. I know others like them back. This is just nit picking...the mix is really good!
Nick
-
I think that Dave was hinting that he would like to hear the drums a bit hotter also. I think maybe just the snare is what needs to be hotter though? I am getting close on this, I know it.
This Dave or the other Dave? :D
I didn't like the sound of the snare in mix 5. I thought it was much better in mix 6.
The level sounds fine to me but as you say it's very hard to judge sometimes.
-
Actually I meant the other Dave Dave :D. Just too many Dave's around here. Wasn't there a song called "These are the Dave's I know"? I think it went..."These are the Dave's I know I know, these are the Dave's I know".
-
Well NIck has spoken. So rest assured you are getting there if not you are there already.
At 2:15 "I will travel long to the end" that line. That's a bck line. They are okay. can be thickened, Echo's phased left/right for effect.
at 2:34 the music fills out and it seems like the vocals need to be a touch louder. Thats the Chorus.. End Chorus. I like your strong vocals that stand out from. And the ton is fine. Just that part is burried a touch but the music compensates for it sort of. That's what I am talking about.
The vox ape.?
=========
Well you made reference on the project thread that you were un-happy with the vocals. They are sung well and strong. I wanted to see inside the track to hear how clear they are. If there is noise or anything in it that effects the mix. see what the dynamic looks like. The wave form. As I say I have a lot of my own stuff to do but I though I would help if I can. Just offering because I like the song. I don't really need the work.
Just raise the vocal a touch in that Chorus and print. That's all it really needs. The drums are solid. There is only one thing that sort of bothers me about the drums. The hats.. They are solid but sound a bit phased. Not sure if that just because the wma is not a high result one. May not be nothing at all. If there is any effect on the hats take it off. They have their own natural sound. Just eq them a touch .
I love this song and look forward to the final mix. This is a great song. I think the drums are solid.
PRINT
Best Of Luck
Tubes
P.S.
I have to STOP referring Nick to do mixes and repairs.
-
Ok, it makes sense now Tubes, thanks. As for the vocals, and me not being happy with them, that was the first take, it was just a scratch take, but the one there now I am happy with. At one point I mentioned I wasn't happy with how the vocals sounded, but that was a mix thing, and I have since changed that, which made all the difference in the world, to me anyway. As far as the vocals having noise, I can assure you that isn't a problem, it's just a matter of matching up the right compression and eq's, and it took me a long time to get this one to fit in. Was the hardest song I ever tried to get the vocal to blend in with, I think it had alot to do with the sound of the guitars, quite a bit different than any of my other songs. I am happy with how the vocals sound and blend now, but I still may end up bumping it up a touch, but not much. Like the drums, in the past I have always been one to set the vocal up there too hot, and I am trying to appeal to the masses...lol.
Thanks again everyone for your help on this. I think I still may do just a few very minor things to it, then I'm gonna call it done(for now, as anyone that knows me can tell you, nothing of mine is ever finished ::))
Curtis
-
Curtis. My internet was down yesterday eveing so I couldn't reply. The latest mix is much better. The only problem area that I hear and I'm not sure why no one else has mentioned it and maybe it's just my setup but I hear a lot of boominess on the toms. Especially the floor tom. It's really heavy on the bass?? Almost makes my speakers pop. Gives a weird low end ring. ???
Other than that it's pretty good mix. The vocals all sound great to me. The guitars are less bright and sit well. The bass is fat. The drums are fat. Sounds good. 8)
Another Dave
-
Just listened to this a few more times tonight and WOW Curtis, you really have a good mix going. Everything sounds really great. The vocals are really good. I love Brina's backing vocals. It really sounds great. The bridge is really cool. It takes me into a different space. I can almost feel myself floating. Good job man. 8)
Again I really hear a bad ring in the toms. I'm listening now with my computer speakers which are not as sensitive as my studio speakers and I can still hear that hollow ring. Fix that, and don't change anything else and I would say it's perfect.
Does anyone else hear what I'm hearing? On every roll with the toms is where I'm hearing it. ???
Dave
-
I hear it Dave, I was just hoping it was only me ::). I think I can fix it easy enough, I just need to look at it and see what is causing it. I changed all the effects on the toms, so I just need to tweek that a tad.
Curtis
-
Ok, another mix on the first post, I just tweeked the Toms. I took some EQ out at 50hz and 100hz. I think it helped alot. I also bumped the lead vocal and the snare up just a tad, you probably won't even be able to notice it. Let me know.
Curtis
-
Yeah, That's much better Curtis. Still ever so slightly boomy but MUCH better. I'm at work and I have even crappier speakers here and the mix sounds really clear. It's up there with the best of them. Good job man !! 8)
-
Well Tubes, I still haven't got anything final on it yet. I have moved, and my listening environment is way different, so I just don't know what I am hearing with anything right now. I kind of put it down for now, just until I figure out how to retrain my ears.
Curtis
-
Well Tubes, I still haven't got anything final on it yet. I have moved, and my listening environment is way different, so I just don't know what I am hearing with anything right now. I kind of put it down for now, just until I figure out how to retrain my ears.
Curtis
Thanks You Curtis for the reply. Great song you got here. Studio player you did great work in this song. It's up-lifting and feels like a radio driving song in the rain.
I look forward to the finished product.
You tubes