Musicians Collaboration Studio
How To => Production Tips and Tricks! => Topic started by: stoman on August 04, 2009, 09:41:24 AM
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A song of mine has a real saxophone that sounds terrible (it has no character). Does anybody have a recipe for saving such tracks, or would the only solution be a retake?
Regards,
Steffen
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A song of mine has a real saxophone that sounds terrible (it has no character). Does anybody have a recipe for saving such tracks, or would the only solution be a retake?
Regards,
Steffen
Lots of things you could try , depending on what's wrong with it. Of course it's always better to get the sound right at source....but if it's not possible.....here are a few things you could try..
Generate more harmonics...lots of ways / plugins to do that..subtle distortion etc
Make another copy and use some paralell compression
Try the Michael Brauer Multiple compression technique....i.e. you send it to 5 or 6 different compressors Auxes and then return them back to the stereo buss, each one giveing a different character to the sound.
sample replacement....turn the audio into midi notes and run it through a VSTi , maybe combine it back with the original
Just a few ideas , but quicker to re-record !
CD
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;) I just re-read that article last night! ;)
Make another copy and use some paralell compression
Try the Michael Brauer Multiple compression technique....i.e. you send it to 5 or 6 different compressors Auxes and then return them back to the stereo buss, each one giveing a different character to the sound.
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Thanks, guys! I'll try the multi compression technique to make the cheap sax sound stronger/fatter. The next problem will then be the delay settings for both sax fills and solo. And the sax needs some
modulation as it sounds completely flat. Any tips on that too?
I don't think I can get hold of the sax player again, so redoing it won't be an option. :(
Regards,
Steffen
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Why not post it up and we can all play with it ?
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;) I just re-read that article last night! ;)
Make another copy and use some paralell compression
Try the Michael Brauer Multiple compression technique....i.e. you send it to 5 or 6 different compressors Auxes and then return them back to the stereo buss, each one giveing a different character to the sound.
Did you try it yet though ?
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Here we go - it is the sax track from "Trust In The Moon".
The sax was detuned. I tuned it with Cubase 5.
Regards,
Steffen
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Here we go - it is the sax track from "Trust In The Moon".
The sax was detuned. I tuned it with Cubase 5.
Regards,
Steffen
Nothing wrong with to my ears , I guess it depends on the rest of the mix too. What didn't you like about it ?
CD
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Many things. :)
1. It was completely out of tune. Fixed that myself. :)
2. It sounds too flat. Can possibly be fixed with a chorus effect.
3. It sounds too weak. Probably needs very accurate compressor settings.
I'd like to have a sounds like in G. Rafferty's "Baker Street", but I don't know how to achieve that.
Regards,
Steffen
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Many things. :)
1. It was completely out of tune. Fixed that myself. :)
2. It sounds too flat. Can possibly be fixed with a chorus effect.
3. It sounds too weak. Probably needs very accurate compressor settings.
I'd like to have a sounds like in G. Rafferty's "Baker Street", but I don't know how to achieve that.
Regards,
Steffen
The actual part itself will never sound like Baker St because it doesn't have the same kind of soaring melody....it's not a solo so much , more of a fill. It's voiced quite differntly tooo.
This is some tube emulation, compression , and ambience. See if that helps...you can always set up your own similar chain if it's starting to sound more like what you want.
I didn't eq it as it's very contextual.
CD
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This is version 2
This one also has a transient enhancer which emphasizes the note attack , and a big reverb space.
CD
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Thanks, CD, I'll try that it the mix.
It is actually more or less what I had tried before though. I think my main problem is how to integrate the sax in the mix. I had originally used a synth sax for those parts, and that sounded worlds better. But, of course, you could hear that it wasn't real.
I have a couple of delay/chorus plugins that I like, and usually they are enough to integrate a sound nicely into a mix. But with this sax nothing works.
I'll probably start the whole mix from scratch. Tomorrow. :)
Regards,
Steffen
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Thanks again. Which transient modeller/enhancer do you use btw?
The sax sep needs some cleanup - there is an annoying valve sound on it (is that the correct term?). I fixed that in my project, but I did not save the fixed sep.
Regards,
Steffen
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Version 3
Added Waves Doubler - Basic Doubler preset edited to suit
I used the Sonnox Transmod on it but there's plenty would do the trick.
I personally like to hear the sound of the valves , I also like to hear fret noise an an acoustic guitar, it's part of the sound for me.
CD
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Even better. :) I must sleep now. Tomorrow will be my last day off - I'll start a new mix then and see how your processed file fits. Can you post a flac or ape?
Thanks and good night,
Steffen
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Here's a Flac
CD
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Not yet - but I have a project that could use it on the vox. I hope this weekend. I have used multiple comps on vox, just not 5!
Nick
;) I just re-read that article last night! ;)
Make another copy and use some paralell compression
Try the Michael Brauer Multiple compression technique....i.e. you send it to 5 or 6 different compressors Auxes and then return them back to the stereo buss, each one giveing a different character to the sound.
Did you try it yet though ?
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Let me know how it works out Nick
CD
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I still cannot achieve an acceptable mix for this song. :(
This is the current version:
http://stoman.org/download/Mimmo_Trust_In_The_Moon.mp3.
I think the sax is ok now. It does not sound great, but it probably won't get better.
The vocals are another problem as the sep quality is not very good.
But I think the main problem is the arrangement of the song. It probably needs more instruments to fill the sonic holes. Maybe a choir similar to the one I added to JoeK's "Samson" in Studio "A".
Any other suggestions?
Regards,
Steffen
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The MP3 is a bit poor , can you post a higher bitrate ?
CD
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Sure. :)
Regards,
Steffen
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Steffen ..trying to be constructive alot of the sounds are poor to start with - I understand why you can't make a good mix.
The Piano & Sax are reasonably okay....the vocals have a horrible sound quality to them...like a bad MP3 ? I don't think the accent helps the intelligibility of the lyrics either.
Bass sounds like a cheap keyboard sound , and the drums sound fake. Strings are a bit nasty sounding too.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the arrangement per se , just the implimentation of it.
No amount of mixing can cover poor original sounds.
I'd stick with the Piano -Sax - Guitar...then rework the rest if you want to make a significant difference. Get a proper bass - Drums...find out what wnet wrong with the vocals then see if you can get some more realistic strings , maybe some backing vocals.
I know this started as a mix thread but sometimes you gotta go back to the start.
CD
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Thanks, CD - you confirmed me in every respect. I will definitely replace the strings and the bass, and, if possible, recruit a drummer. I'm not sure if I can get better vocals. Mimmo's mic seems to have lost quality. He did re-sing the song once or twice, but the sound quality still wasn't acceptable.
I'll ask him if he can do anything to improve it.
Regards,
Steffen
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Sounds like a lossy file fromat to me ? Even a cheap mic wouldn't sound like that....are you sure he's sent you an original wave file and not something that's been transcoded ?
CD