Stupid Question - Do You Guys Hear Your Plugins As You're Playing???

[peterk1]

This is a really basic question that I've had for a while, but I haven't really figured it out myself or found an answer yet.

I'm using something called Power Tracks as my DAW. It's by the same guys who make Band In A Box - very inexpensive. I've been using it for ages.

One thing that bugs me a bit is that I'm not able to hear plugins that I have active on a track as I'm playing. I have to record first and can only listen to it with the DAW effect  on playback.

I've asked about it on their support board and I've been told that the next version after the one that I have supports what I want to do, but because it takes a massive amount of CPU, most people don't use that option.

Is this how things are supposed to be or am I torturing myself by working this way?

It's bugging me mainly with reverbs. As I'm rehearsing tunes, I use a nice TC Electronic unit that has gorgeous reverbs on it. But when I record I want to have a dry track to pass on if I get asked for a SEP, so I click the TC reverb off and record dry. And then I simulate the TC reverb inside my DAW with a plugin for the audition MP3.

But I'm finding that not having the reverb present as I'm playing does change the way I play on some tunes.

Any help appreciated. How do you guys do it?

[Vincent]

peterk1 I would suggest downloading reaper and using that.

I used other recording software before and was disapointed in some of its functions.

Use reaper

http://www.reaper.fm/

Only downside is that Reaper does not play WMA files...If people use WMA in collabs I just use a file converter program...switch file from WMA to WAV...lots of file converter programs to choose from so its not even an issue in regards to using reaper.

[Studioplayer]

Yep. If you need to use a program that's free then use Reaper. You are torturing yourself.  I'm not fully sure of your setup but I can record both wet and dry tracks (multi). Soundcard is really important too. There's no way I could record properly without hearing my effects. It's impossible to get into a groove or mood playing say a heavy rock song with a dry no effects guitar.  If you really want to do this as a hobby then you really have to spend a couple of bucks improving your equipment. Good programs like Sonar etc. are the cats meow and proper sound cards with good A/D converters are a must.

My best investment so far was a good guitar, my PODx3 for Direct input, an E-mu 1212m pci sound card with 'Mastering grade 24-bit/192kHz converters - the same A/D converters used in Digidesign's flagship ProTools HD 192 I/O Interface delivering an amazing 120dB signal-to-noise ratio' and a good computer. The programs out there is choice. Sonar, Acid, Cubase, Protools, Reaper, are all good.

The soundcard made the biggest difference in my recording. Multi tracking, wet & dry, 24 bit and great converters.


Anyways I digress. Ya, your torturing yourself. 

Dave

[peterk1]

Thanks guys.

[CosmicDolphin]

Most DAW software can do that nowadays but it's still down the the speed of your PC and the latency of the drivers as to how well it will work.

I've been recording my vocals dry ever since I got rid of my analogue setup as I tend to have alot of tracks and I couldn't run all the plugins and 30-40 audio tracks with a low ( sub 10ms )  latency ....which meant the recorded vocal + plugin verb showed up a fraction of a second later in the headphones , very offputting .  Luckily I had a direct monitor fader so I just listened to that in my cans but it's without any verb and I got used to it after a little while.

When I upgraded soundcards last month I bought one with it's own reverb built in , so I can use direct monitoring plus the built in reverb and get the best of both worlds...I can just leave the Soundcard latency settings alone.  It also has a compressor and eq built in though I've not tried those yet as it does actually 'record' those onto your track but not the reverb ( although I think it can if you wanted it to ).

It's a better way if you're running lots of tracks and plugins as it's not relying on the PC and souncard running at the lowest latency settings which is when the PC runs out of steam alot more quickly.

Then again most folk don't run as many tracks in a song as I do !  I also have to have maximum power when doing the many mixes I do as I run alot of plugins , I think I have it at around 50ms to mix.

CD

[peterk1]

Thanks CD,

I think I'd probably be OK latency wise, because I tend to record with all of my effects except the reverb, so that would be the only thing coming in through a plug-in.

My work-flow for collaborating on guitar is actually very fast:

I use a floor based effects unit from TC (mono guitar in, stereo out...so it doesn't really work well in an effects-loop off my mixer...I'd lose my stereo).
I rehearse through an amp. I save a patch in the floor unit for every song so I can save my sounds and recall them on a different day. I might have to take note of the settings on my guitar on paper if it's something special.

When its time to record, I disconnect from the amp send it to my mixer, add the second cable for the stereo out. Turn on a speaker emulator on the unit.
And then I pretty much have my rehearsal sound almost perfectly duplicated.

But then I click off the reverb and that's the only thing I'm missing. Normally not a big deal, but with some reverb sounds, you can actually work with them as you play - digging in a bit harder on a note might give you a nice little highlight or echo in the room.

I monitor myself off my soundcard's software mixer and can adjust the volume in there so I get a good monitor mix when playing.

Anyways, good food for thought in this thread - will definitely be getting rid of this weakness soon one way or the other. 



 

[Vincent]

If you need any info or help with reaper just ask peterk1

I downloaded and tried reaper like 10 times before I gave up my old standby softie...eventually though reaper won out because I got tired of the limitations of my old DAW'S.

If you have a question...no matter how simple or basic just ask...not saying I will know the answer however I can probably find the answer.

---------------

Basics of Reaper...you should go to options in menu and click on preferences then Audio (Device)...set up how your recording.

once you do that

Click on track in menu...add new track

On new track click "ar" to arm for recording...click on the speaker icon just below to monitor/hear what you playing...click on the black bar with #'s and -inf to see recording options/input...choose what works for you...click on FX button and add the effects you want while playing.

thats your basic startup for reaper.

[napoleonboot]

Yep. If you need to use a program that's free then use Reaper. You are torturing yourself.  I'm not fully sure of your setup but I can record both wet and dry tracks (multi). Soundcard is really important too. There's no way I could record properly without hearing my effects. It's impossible to get into a groove or mood playing say a heavy rock song with a dry no effects guitar.  If you really want to do this as a hobby then you really have to spend a couple of bucks improving your equipment. Good programs like Sonar etc. are the cats meow and proper sound cards with good A/D converters are a must.

My best investment so far was a good guitar, my PODx3 for Direct input, an E-mu 1212m pci sound card with 'Mastering grade 24-bit/192kHz converters - the same A/D converters used in Digidesign's flagship ProTools HD 192 I/O Interface delivering an amazing 120dB signal-to-noise ratio' and a good computer. The programs out there is choice. Sonar, Acid, Cubase, Protools, Reaper, are all good.

The soundcard made the biggest difference in my recording. Multi tracking, wet & dry, 24 bit and great converters.


Anyways I digress. Ya, your torturing yourself. 

Dave

Dave - good list of s/w, but I think you missed Adobe Audition. No good for midi for fine for us stringy types.

I use it for all my stuff.

George

[Argle]

what I love about the Alesis multimix interface, the one I will be getting, is that it has built in effects, so you can put reverb on the guitar, while being able to record both the dry and wet guitar at the same time.  and since the fx are on the mixer they don't take up cpu juice, or require super low latency to properly hear during the recording.  so ya, the proper kinda gear is very important.

[mickbrit55]

I think the biggest difference I have ever seen is when I switched to 64-bit. I use Sonar 8.5.3 Producer Edition and it runs really smooth. With 64-bit you can use more RAM than the 3.5 GB limit on 32-bit OS, so using input monitoring you can run everything wet and not really worry about it.

[TallPaul]

Is Reaper still free? I thought I checked a month or so ago and the free version was gone, only paid versions.

I use n-track and have for years. When I am recording, I usually have my effects turned on (compression, two reverbs, potentially EQ). If I have a lot of tracks and my CPU gets chewed up, I either disable the hogging reverb I use or disable the master effects button.

[Sharpola]

Another fellow lefty!

I think the biggest difference I have ever seen is when I switched to 64-bit. I use Sonar 8.5.3 Producer Edition and it runs really smooth. With 64-bit you can use more RAM than the 3.5 GB limit on 32-bit OS, so using input monitoring you can run everything wet and not really worry about it.

[mickbrit55]

Is Reaper still free? I thought I checked a month or so ago and the free version was gone, only paid versions.

Just checked the site and you are right. $60 after the 30 day trial ... or $225 for a commercial license if you are grossing 20k/year ... which means you are probably using something else anyway. That's still a fantastic deal.

Sharpola : Yeah, buying a new guitar is a major investment for us lefties, right? Plus I play with the thing strung right-handed ... yeah ... don't ask