Musicians Collaboration Studio
How To => Using This Board => Topic started by: LindyM on August 17, 2008, 01:55:02 PM
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One of the major complaints on every collaboration board I've ever frequented is that it takes too long for a song to progress from its original submission to completion. There are ways to alleviate this that should not pose an undue burden on anyone.
The most important option, in my opinion, would be to offer a written version of your song. I've seen several threads begun here that only offer an audio file and a list of desired instruments. That means that each individual who so much as considers being involved on a project must go through some sort of process to develop a chord progression against a set of lyrics (which all too many times has not been posted, either). Obviously, this is even more prevalent with instrumental submissions.
There are differing levels of expertise when it comes to doing music charting, and I would not expect everyone to find it easy to do. But it makes far more sense, at least to me, to have one person, the song's author in most cases, do this and post it than having 3, 4, 5 or more people doing it, with possibly different results. Posting a chart in .pdf (Acrobat) or .doc (Word) format should make our songs accessible to everyone.
Starting at one place will allow everyone to be on the same page (sorry 'bout the pun) as they begin tracking. And to me, it should be a requirement. From there, everyone is free to offer suggestions for changes, but at least you don't have multiple people doing the job of one.
Thanks.
Lindy
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Yep. I totally agree. I think I'll make an effort to post the chords of any song I post needing instrumentation. Helps me when I want to audition. Saves time trying to figure it out no matter how simple it may be. :)
Dave
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I agree but the only problem I have is when I've transposed stuff or used a capo, and can't figure it out...or when it's a slightly unusual chord or way of playing that's hard to describe.
I shoulda listened in those music lessons ::)
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That is a very good practice to get into the habit of.
Great point Lindy.
It's not all that hard to do either. In fact it should be at least you can offer to make it easy for other to jump in on. It is so much easier to have some form of structure in place.
Even as talented as I am ;D I'm slow to transcribe things and would rather just start playing along.
Often times it's quite frequent I don't know what I'm playing on the guitar. In those cases I simple write it out like Tab low string to high
799800/577600/355400/etc.....
Even studio session players get Chord Charts. ;)
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Capo 2ng frett
x02210 = Bm (but plays like Am) ;D
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I always cheat . My Casio keyboard tells me the name of each chord I play. When I like a chord, I write it on the lyric sheet above the word where the chord changes. That's all I know how to do. :-\
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I always cheat . My Casio keyboard tells me the name of each chord I play. When I like a chord, I write it on the lyric sheet above the word where the chord changes. That's all I know how to do. :-\
That's as good a place as any to begin. Quality players can use the most basic chords to create something interesting.
I've recently discovered some really good autoharp players who can do some astonishing things. Given the push-button chords available on the instrument, it's remarkable how interesting their recordings can be.
But even at that, posting lyrics should be an absolute requirement. In fact, if your song is posted without a lyric sheet, you can bet I'll ignore it. It could be a great song, but there are some tools that should simply be offered without having to ask.
It would be like being asked to help remodel a house without having a blueprint or knowing who would provide the hammer.
Lindy
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And to me, it should be a requirement.
I personally wouldn't want to make it a requirement to provide a chart to post a collaboration here, but if it's helpful to some and people want to post charts go for it. The more info posters can provide the better!
Mark
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I am musically illiterate. I play by ear. So the most you would get out of me was a basic chord chart. My Father was a big band leader. He had charts for his 17 piece. He heard a song I did in the studio with a very melodic solo. He asked, "How do you know what to play?" I told him the notes are in my head, I just have to find them on the guitar!
:)
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I do it by ear too. Haven't written a single bit of notation since college. Doubt I could even offer a chord chart at this piont.
Jeff
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I'm sure Code Monkey could knock up a mod that would analyse the music and extrapolate the tempo , time signature , chords used and then using nueral speech recognition figure out the lyrics for us ? Next update Mark..whaddaya say >:D
CD
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I'm sure Code Monkey could knock up a mod that would analyse the music and extrapolate the tempo , time signature , chords used and then using nueral speech recognition figure out the lyrics for us ? Next update Mark..whaddaya say >:D
Remarkably enough, there is software that will analyze music and even break down chords into individual notes. I'm not sure if it converts the identified notes into chord symbols or guitar tablature, but what it does is still pretty neat.
It's not cheap, though, so we're all counting on Code Monkey now. We want the mod, and no one wants to pay for it! ;)
Nueral speech recognition would be cool, too. I'd settle for an upgrade.
Lindy
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I'm sure Code Monkey could knock up a mod that would analyse the music and extrapolate the tempo , time signature , chords used and then using nueral speech recognition figure out the lyrics for us ? Next update Mark..whaddaya say >:D
CD
hehe, not on my priority list, nor likely to ever make my prioriy list.
Charts are handy for some people, but I've never personally used them for collabs. If people want charts they should request the originator to post them is the best bet.
Mark
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The most important option, in my opinion, would be to offer a written version of your song. I've seen several threads begun here that only offer an audio file and a list of desired instruments. That means that each individual who so much as considers being involved on a project must go through some sort of process to develop a chord progression against a set of lyrics (which all too many times has not been posted, either).
I just wanted to say that I agree with Lindy. When I was doing my first song, either here or over at CC, I don't remember, someone suggested a handy format that I have used for every song since. It works like this:
Verse1
|C....|F....|G7....|
La la la type in first line of lyrics
|C....|Am....|G7....|
Next line of lyrics la la la
The vertical bars represent a measure and each little dot between the bars represents a beat (so for 3/4 time, I put 3 dots). If you have a chord change in the measure, you can chart it like this: |C..F..|
It's a little bit of work and less "short-handed" than a typical Nashville chart or jazz chart, but I think it is easy to read and basically lays everything out so there is no miscommunication.
Also, a great web site for figuring out the correct name of a guitar chord is here: http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/chord_name.php
Rob
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Thanks, Rob.
Let me just reiterate that if you (generic "you," as in anybody here) really don't have the skills to do charts, THAT'S OKAY! The fact that you're here contributing is SO MUCH more important than dem pesky details. If all you can do is write out the lyrics (misspelled & everything), that's better than expecting 3, 4, 5 or more people to come up with exactly the same thing with nothing other than a audio file to start.
IOW, I'm not asking that it be a requirement. I'm simply reminding folks that the more you start with, the better and more consistent results you'll get in a shorter period of time.
And above everything else, the reason this board exists is for musicians and songwriters to help one another. So if you think there may be confusion about a chord progression on a song you're submitting, ASK for the help - with charting, too.
Thanks.
Lindy
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I suspect that "charting" is more common for those genre's of music that tend to be created with session players, and maybe less common for typcial "band" music like rock and grunge and metal. I know it is pretty common to use charts in Nashville where a lot of the music is done by pro session players who can knock out great tracks the first or second time through -- they all use a chart. The same is true for my Berklee-trained jazz guitar teacher who can play anything, can name any chord you can play, and who can tell you which finger on which string is the 3rd, the 5th, the flat 7th, etc. He had a real command of theory and the chart is just a short hand road map of where to go next.
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What if your song is just an instrumental? Not to mention the Chord chart since there are infinite illustrations. I do know it depends on the composer's notation, but say if a piece is uploaded without the melody.
Don't get it confused with a monophonic instrument playing the melody versus a polyphonic or chordal one. (flute vs. piano) because often times the melody is also played with the latter instruments.
Therefore, you can still tell where the progressions are going within a song. This is the case with a song I'm listening to.
As I mentioned before with the composer's indication of chords: Some implore the extended variety (9ths, 11ths, 13ths - alterations included); however, performance wise, they are seen and heard as sevenths (alterations included) with the root in the bass.
A13b9b11, for example.
This chord chord on the piano, would boil down to GmMaj7b5/A. The reasons for this is people play in the root + chord position; therefore, omitting two notes.
The above chord (A13b9b11) looks like this: A, C# E, G, Bb, Db, F#
Note, how the third and eleventh are the same note harmonically. Or if the chord were a b9, the eleventh would be a natural, and though that D is an octave higher, it eould still clash with the third of that chord if the octave is displaced.
The two omitted notes would be the third and fifth. Therefore:
A, C#, E, G, Bb, Db, F# --------------> A + G, Bb, Db, F#
11ths in performance see the third omitted (A + E, G, Bb, Db = Edim7/A) while ninths take care of themselves (octave root + seventh chord), but still may be noted as such. Em9 = (GMaj7/E) Yes, I understand the difference between extended and slash chords, but performance wise, the slash variety are very prevalent substituted for their extended versions.
So, again, it comes down to the performer understanding scales.
And let's not forget to mention inversions which encompass figured bass. Anything past a seventh (alterations included), still looks like a seventh. As this complicates things further, it'd be easier to omit the respective notes in 11ths and 13ths and look at them as inverted sevenths.
Em9 4th inversion = F#, G, B, D, (E); outside the parentheses, sits a GMaj7 (4/2) chord.
Em11 5th inversion = G, B, D, F#, A, (E). Here we have a GMaj9 and Bm7 outside the parentheses
Em13 sixth inversion = B, D, F#, A, C# (E, G) Here, we have GMaj11, Bm9 and DMaj7 chords respectively.
Given those examples, it'd be tremendously easier on the performer to see the latter chords unless the performer knows what the extended chords look like therefore adjusting accordingly.