Musicians Collaboration Studio
How To => Production Tips and Tricks! => Topic started by: Paulo on November 07, 2009, 05:22:46 AM
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It's the most difficult part to me... The bass always gives me a headache and I never seems to be happy with it, damn >:(... I hear the bass mixed from some other guys and it sounds consistent but I can't do it...
... Just downloaded some articles about this issue, lemme see if I can understand what's wrong with me... One thing I'm sure, I'm too much sensitive too the low end, it always sounds enough to me while others say that I need more :-[
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:-[ :-*
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It's the most difficult part to me... The bass always gives me a headache and I never seems to be happy with it, damn >:(... I hear the bass mixed from some other guys and it sounds consistent but I can't do it...
... Just downloaded some articles about this issue, lemme see if I can understand what's wrong with me... One thing I'm sure, I'm too much sensitive too the low end, it always sound enough to me while others say that I need more :-[
It's probably 70% to do with the acoustic treatment of the room you mix in....look for answers there first. Don't expect miracles without having some kind of bass trapping.
CD
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100% agree with CD if you are mixing in any type of "control room" envirnoment plays a BIG part in what you are hearing.
When I used to give my master classes in analog recording engineering - I always used the example of how BOSE speakers are designed to USE a rooms natural acoustics to diffuse the highs and produce great low end from very small speakers. The complete opposite of that is wearing a pair of headphones. Headphones are usually never accurate (IMHO) and I only recommended having them for adjusting stereo imaging and for close listening to tracks, etc. but not for mixing.
If there is anything else you might wish to ask if you like my mixes Paulo - please feel free to PM me.
Take care,
Neal
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My problem too Paulo. Only....I get too much, and too low!!
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Bill - see message below ::)
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100% agree with CD if you are mixing in any type of "control room" envirnoment plays a BIG part in what you are hearing.
When I used to give my master classes in analog recording engineering - I always used the example of how BOSE speakers are designed to USE a rooms natural acoustics to diffuse the highs and produce great low end from very small speakers. The complete opposite of that is wearing a pair of headphones. Headphones are usually never accurate (IMHO) and I only recommended having them for adjusting stereo imaging and for close listening to tracks, etc. but not for mixing.
If there is anything else you might wish to ask if you like my mixes Paulo - please feel free to PM me.
Take care,
Neal
Neal,
I do my mixes with speakers and I only use headphones exacly to do what you describe...
These monitors respond just fine 'cause I can hear the differences between my bass and others. I know others sound better 'cause I can listen properly through my monitors.
I know the problem of mine is equing and compressing. I can do it fairly good with most of the instruments but bass is a pain to me. Is there any receipt?
Well, yesterday I downloaded some articles about bass mixing, I'll see if they can help me but I guess the problem is me 'cause I don't believe in receips.
By the way, I love Bose too, maybe they build the best stuff in the world.
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Paulo
Did you try the test on this thread ?
http://www.musicianscollaboration.com/forum/index.php?topic=3078.0
Can be very revealing.
CD
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Ahh the staircase test will tell the tale for sure. There's no simple recipe for mixing bass guitar ... everyone plays it different and everyone sounds different. It is a tough instrument to mix in properly sometimes.
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Paulo
Did you try the test on this thread ?
http://www.musicianscollaboration.com/forum/index.php?topic=3078.0
Can be very revealing.
CD
I'll give it a listen CD, thanks
Ahh the staircase test will tell the tale for sure. There's no simple recipe for mixing bass guitar ... everyone plays it different and everyone sounds different. It is a tough instrument to mix in properly sometimes.
Yeh I know there's no reciepe... It's a difficult instrument...
... Thanks all for input.
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yea bass is a bit tough to mix. I typically put a compressor, eq, multiband compressor in that order. Why both EQ and multiband argle you crazy fool, you ask. the eq is to broadly shape the tone, and the multiband is to control the lows/low mids, since different notes have different amounts of bass energy and you want the low end to be very controlled in teh mix. Eq affects everything the same amount, but multiband can have a stabilizing effect on the low end.
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yea bass is a bit tough to mix. I typically put a compressor, eq, multiband compressor in that order. Why both EQ and multiband argle you crazy fool, you ask. the eq is to broadly shape the tone, and the multiband is to control the lows/low mids, since different notes have different amounts of bass energy and you want the low end to be very controlled in teh mix. Eq affects everything the same amount, but multiband can have a stabilizing effect on the low end.
Interesting approach , I will give it a try next time, wouldn't normally use a mutiband too.
CD
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Interesting conversation. Having played the bass for 45 years, I guess I am just used to the sound. Or, know what I want to hear back. Now, vocals, that's another story.. ::)
BW@
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I'm already in enough trouble for typing what I think on here, so I'll just read and keep quiet for a change. :-X
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Here is something a friend of mine posted else where so I ripped it from him, hope it helps you.
Someone had posted a similar question on another board ...
"I'm not familiar with the equipment you are using but it's all the same principle. You sound like you are on the right track. Your high pass filter should be no lower than 50Hz and no higher than 80Hz. 60Hz is what a lot of engineers use for bass. You should have some high end in there to bring out some clarity. I'm not sure if you are compressing it or not but you should be. You'll be able to get more attack and it will enable you to bring it farther forward in the mix. It also sounds like you will yield better results from using a mike. A Sennheiser 421 is a beautiful Mike to record bass with but a Sure B-52 will do the job as well. But, if that's not possible start with just the kick drum and bass if possible. If not then the bass and just drums. Make sure they work together because that's the whole foundation to your mix. The bass and kick drum need their own space so you have to make sure they work together. The kick drum should be moving the air not the bass. When I first started mixing I wanted to feel the air moving from the bass out of the speakers like I do live. Bass doesn't move a lot of air in recordings. Try taking some commercial recordings of the same style. A-B it with your mix. Are you moving too much air in comparison? If your kick drum isn't moving enough air give it a boost at 60Hz. If the bass is too thin you can bump it up at 100Hz. Don't get to wide with you "Q". 100 Hz is your best low end frequency for boosting bass. But, it's neighbor 200Hz is a horrible sounding frequency for bass. If the bass needs more clarity 4kHz is a good frequency, but you can play around in the presence range between 1kHz-5kHz and see what suits your ears. When you bring in guitars they should work naturally with the bass. If they are getting too cluttered with the bass start rolling some low end off of the guitars. Rhythm guitars are normally recorded with a Sure SM57 tight on the grill. This adds some proximity effect which occurs around 200Hz. So, if you throw a high pass filter on the guitar around 200-250Hz that should clean that up and give the bass it's own space in that range.
That's about all I have time for at the moment. I have band practice so I have to run.
Dave"
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Thanks for passing that on to us Haz! I'm kind of an audio idiot. Little by little I'm learning. (very slowly)