Musicians Collaboration Studio
How To => Production Tips and Tricks! => Topic started by: Paulo on April 09, 2011, 07:31:49 AM
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Oh well, now I'm a bit surprised. Steinberg platforms got a plugin called "Externalizer" and I came across it a thousand times and never cared to know what it is. Yesterday went through Nunendo's manual to read about that plug. It is usefull to mix with phones as it simulates the room and the position of the monitors. To be honest I got septic, still I loaded it up in the master section and tried mixing with it late night... Went to sleep at about 3 am
... Today I loaded that mix again, turned off the plug and listened through the monitors. The results are miles away better than what I thought. .The mix is almost done, only a few tweakes needed...
... From what I experienced, most of the mix is correct, including balance between the instruments... I only need to tweak the eqs on the guitars that appear to be arsh, listening through the monitos, other than that, I'm surprised.
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I mix on headphones. My speakers are insufficient. I think it is definitely doable, you have to have accurate headphones and be aware of things, like panned guitars sound louder in phones than they actually are.
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I mix on headphones. My speakers are insufficient. I think it is definitely doable, you have to have accurate headphones and be aware of things, like panned guitars sound louder in phones than they actually are.
Yes but with this plug the guitars don't sound louder than what they are, somehow it compensates things and most of it, sounds like in real speakers. What most surprised me was the bass and kick. Usualy mixing with phones, I end up having those two pieces very low in the mix because I listen to much on the phones, with this plug they went just fine
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I have the Focusrite Pro24 DSP
One of the reasons I bought it was because it has a DSP chip that does a more accurate version of your plugin Paulo...it simulates various speakers & monitors in different rooms. It is a useful check as it sometimes throws up balance issues that were't obvious otherwise.
I think if you can use these techniques and get used to a good set of headphones then it should be viable to produce mixes that translate reasonably well, but I use the monitors first and the headphones second. the other benefit is you won't be mixing to compensate for the room sound and they are a great tool for detail work though - especially cleaning up tiny noises in seps etc.
I do have songs in my back catalogue that were mixed entirely with an echo indigo and a pair of Sennheisers....I distinctly recall one was finsihed on a bus journey ;D I don't think they came out any worse than when I had my old monitors and no room treatment. >:D
CD
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Is the E-ternalizer a free plug or is it bundled with a Daw...I did a search and found this site however no download.
http://www.madtracker.org/plugins.php?author=Steinberg&from=10
Decided I wanted to try this plug or something similar and did a search...led me to sound on sound which then led me to a few freebies to try out.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan07/articles/mixingheadphones.htm
http://www.sonicspot.com/vnophones/vnophones.html
http://www.ohl.to/about-audio/audio-softwares/crossfeed-and-eq
Im trying out the freebies for now...the crossfeed eq plug is interesting.
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Yes CD, I read aabout that focusrite unit, looks nice.
Voncent, I don't think you can find that plug separately, it comes with Steinberg Platforms for ages, I never saw it elsewhere.
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Yes CD, I read aabout that focusrite unit, looks nice.
Voncent, I don't think you can find that plug separately, it comes with Steinberg Platforms for ages, I never saw it elsewhere.
They sell that bit as a stand alone unit now, it was in this month's SOS
CD
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Never liked mixing on headphones but if they are giving away a Steinberg plugin with SOS I'm going to see if I can get it. I presume that you are referring to Sound on Sound? I never mixdown using headphones but I do use them for setting levels sometimes :)
All the best from BB Dog................Must get my picture on here!!! My posts look crap without!!!!!
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I'd be skeptical about doing a FINAL mix on headphones with any software, but I routinely take the mix as close as I can with the 'phones before I hook up to my studio monitors.
It's just easier that way with a wife and two kids who would *really* rather watch Spongebob than listen to the same eight measures of music looped for fifteen minutes. Then on the rare occasions that I get a few hours to myself, I take the close mixes and finish them with my monitors.
By the way - great signature on CosmicDolphin about never finishing a mix. I feel the same way, I've just never seen it verbalized.
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This is an old post, 25 May 2011 when I posted here. I was surprised last night when I got this notification. I haven't really been on here since July 2011, but for the odd occasion!
Not doing much music at the moment, but when I do, I mix with both headphones & speakers. The final is always done on monitors though ;)
I've come directly to this post via e-mail so I haven't been onto the main feed on here. I assume you have just joined? If you have, welcome to the group :)
The people on here are really friendly unlike some other sites I belong to :( I enjoyed the interaction on here. Just not been on due to having the time really. Not written anything or remixed for over a year. I'm still playing & jamming but nothing constructive, despite saying I would have an album out this year. Going to have to get my butt into gear. The autumn is now here so I should have time to get something done.
All the best, BB aka Neil (UK) :) 8)
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I think I'll have a nose around the site now I'm here :)
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Headphones are good for certain things when mixing and can be revealing of certain aspects of a mix that may be missed on other monitors.
Particularly low level unwanted noises, clicks , pops and other a nasty things. They can also reveal distortion that may not be obvious on monitors.
Also I find them good for setting reverb levels etc as it's much easier to overcook it on a monitor, but the headphones are quite revealing.
Things they are bad for generally include sitting the vocals at the right level and making bass end adjustments, as even the shape of your head / ears can significantly affect the perception of the bottom end.
CD
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as even the shape of your head / ears can significantly affect the perception of the bottom end.
CD
My head is shaped like my bottom :(
Mick.
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95% of this mix was done through the headphones... I just turned ON the monitors in the end and adjusted some little things.
I used the Externalizer plugin to simulate the room and speakers behavior.
http://www.musicianscollaboration.com/forum/index.php?topic=9873.0
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Paulo, do you know if this Externalizer plug-in is also included in CB?
I nerver heard of it before...
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I mix with phones untill final few mixes.
Then listen through speakers/monitors to finish it off.
I dont use any Externalizer plugin any more.
You dont need it.
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If you want to try out some great plugins, including a Headphone Compensator program, go here & grab the bundle...
http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/audio_vst_jb.htm (http://JB VST plugin bundle)
I feel the JB Isone Pro is the best free Headphone Compensator out there, and now it is back for free! Isone is not for everyone, but I feel that it does help get a better overall balance that translates well to the outside world. It also has a good variety of simulated speaker systems to check your mixes on, saving some running around testing your mix on various speakers. Tho it will NOT replace the real listening environment, it does work well.
Just tossing this out there for folks who might be interested! 8)
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Jeroen's plugins are nice (even though the GUIs are tiny). I bought Izotone years ago and did use it a couple of times, but mixing on head phones never really worked well for me - even when I thought it did.
You always perceive sounds quite differently on head phones (with or without tools like Izotone), and there is also the psychological problem of knowing (and feeling) that there is something on your head which does not allow you to "believe" it's a real room you mix in.
In fact I've never heard a really good phones mix yet.
A big problem when mixing with head phones (especially without room simulators like Izotone) is that the ears get tired much sooner than with speakers. It only takes - at most - a couple of minutes, and you think everything you do sounds right, even though it actually sounds terrible.
Besides, you destroy your ears that way. But I think that's clear anyway.
Regards,
Steffen
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It was some versions ago, I don't know if it still is... As far as I remember, it was in cubase 5.
Paulo, do you know if this Externalizer plug-in is also included in CB?
I nerver heard of it before...