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Musicians Collaboration Studio
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            Break With Protocol
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Author Topic: Break With Protocol  (Read 15944 times)
CosmicDolphin
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« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2007, 10:41:42 AM »

Thanks Guys.....It's morning time again here and mixes always sound different than the night before.  I did the mastering whilst they showed the season finale to 'Lost' here during the Ad breaks !

Listening back now you're right about the kick drum, it just doesn't punch through how I'd like it too - in the proper mix it cuts through with alot of definition and if I was doing this for real for somebody i'd probably go back and try to fix it.

 Vocally I understand where you're coming from and there's probably work that could be done to just tie it in to the song more as it sounds like it's come from another place at the moment - a slightly 'tacked on' feel which was a by product of trying to have it more upfront. Again if I was doing it for real I'd experiment with that more and try a bunch of different reverbs to get it sitting better.

I'll cut you a deal when the Bond people come knocking -  Nick can do the stereo version, I'll do the 5.1 mix !!

I might keep it as my  'rainy day' project, see if I can't iron out those last couple of issues at some point when I get the other tracks done.  Thanks for all you feedback guys.  I'll post a little list of what I did if anyone's interested.

CosmicDolphin
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« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2007, 05:17:25 PM »

Really good job Cosmic.  Cool  I did notice the lack of kick drum as well but I'd say you got the mix pretty damn good minus a couple of small issues. I think because you got the mix so wide and full it seems to wrap around the vocals some. Not sure how you'd fix that.  It's not really a matter of just bringing up the volume on the vocals. I don't think that would do it. Somehow making them more present in the mix. Huh? I wouldn't mind seeing a list of the things you had done. I'm always interested in the mixing process. I really have lots to learn in that area and for me it's helps to 'see' what was done.

We should be having a 'mixing and mastering clinic' around here. Have mix-offs on different songs. Focus on different tools such as eq, reverbs etc. Cary started something like that but I think it proves to be a lot of work running a clinic. It's too bad because a lot of us players could benifit by the mixing skills that you guys have.

Good mix man. It had me enjoying the song again !!!  Smiley

Dave

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CosmicDolphin
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« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2007, 06:43:33 PM »

Glad you liked it so much Dave.......In fact I'll probably call it done if you're enjoying that version so much and move on to something else.

These are the broad brushstrokes of what I did:-

Overall  - I set up a buss in Sonar for Drums / Bass / Keys / Vocals / Guitars and and early reflections reverb from Waves Rverb on one send and PSP Lexicon84 Delay on the other with a 16th note style delay.  I sent various amounts of instuments to each effect, and used a hi-pass filter on the stereo fx returns to stop it clogging the low mids.

I used the busses I'd set up so I could do broad balance changes and mute whole sections easily whilst working.

Drums - I had trouble because it was a stereo file so I cheated by using the free demo version of Drumagog - the two free drum sounds matched the original quite well so I overlayed these onto the stereo tracks which I'd compressed, enhanced and put through Waves trans-x ( transient enhancer ) for more definition without eq - balanced the three elements and I put Waves L1 on the Drum buss with maximum threshold to catch any overs.  I later decided the cymbals weren't sounding so great  - a bit piercing  - so I pulled them back with a notch filter eq.

Bass - I fiddled with the bass a while, then eventually found a patch on Guitar Rig 2's bass section I liked - it seemed to bring the mid sound of the bass out more , made it brighter.  I used a hi-pass filter at about 55hz to take out any subsonic stuff that my smallish monitors may not reveal  and some overall gentle compression to even it out level wise.

Guitars - The guitars for me were probably the thing I struggled the most with.  I tried several things to get them sitting, but not too bright or dull or obscuring the vocals and bass which they tended to do.  In the end i took off most of what I'd done originally and tried PSP vintage warmer - there's a preset called something like ' Vintage Guitar ' which basically rolls off alot of the top end, boosts the low end and compresses the hell out of the signal...well it was a bit OTT so I used it as a starting point, added back about half of the top end, backed off the compression about 50% and too some of the bass boost off. That seemed to work quite well so I left it at that.

Vocals - I didn't really do that much to the vocals, just a bit of overall eq on the lead - sent it to the delay send and put a short plate sound on it.  The backing vocals I did similar but used a stereo widener too.

Keys - I spent a fair bit of time eq'ing and sorting levels out on the keys.  I put the Hammond through a rotary speaker sim to give it width and movement and took some of the low mid frequencies out.  Then I sent all the keys to their own buss which had another Vintage Warmer but a less obvious one that just emulates tape saturation and again some delay and reverb to help them sit and some extra width from the widener plugin.

For the mixdown, I did some fader rides where I recorded the automation in Sonar and used my control surface.  I did the Drums in one pass - to give the impression of when a real drummer will play harder in the choruses , the bass - again dropped a little for the verses and upped a little for the choruses and sections of the lead break.  Then the lead vocals, same idea really.  Once I had a mixdown I was happy with , I used harbal to check for any rogue frequency anomolies, which tend to be down to working in a small room ( it's about 8x8 ft, hence my mixes that tend towards bass lite I think ) then used Waves Multiband Compressor and L3 Limiter to process the bounced down wave file get more volume.

And that was it !  Well there were all sorts of other little things I did, undid, re-did, but that's the overall gist of it.

CosmicDolphin

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« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2007, 07:08:54 PM »

Cool info. I'll have to check some of those things out. I have guitar rig 2 but never use it. The PSP vintage warmer sounds interesting. Something to look into. A rotary speaker is a cool idea for the keys. It's pretty cool how everyone has a different approach to mixing. Like I said we need a mix clinic.  Smiley

Thanks man & I hope you had fun with it.

Dave
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« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2007, 11:33:30 PM »

Bill (r4m) had suggested awhile back that I should post this song on GarageBand. After many useless reviews (most people don't say much other than a few words) I figured I should go back in there and delete my account. So far GarageBand is kind of a joke as people just want you to play their music and could really care less about yours. Anyways the final review was really nice and I thought I'd share it with you guys. In the end someone actually listened and got it.  Smiley

Firey and "smokin"
Sound:Intro is strong-gripping right from the start, such a pace!!
Guitars add punch. An interesting sound on lead highly electronic adds a catchy unusuality (is it a roland guitar Synth?). Good job
Rhythm section is powerful and keyboard lines work well Good Job...

Lyrics are well expressed. and clearly heard Good Job..
The breakdown/solosection smokes.Lots of passion. I love the trades. Not of that around at the moment so this is a brave move as far as I'm concerned.
Arrangement is firey and well conceived. Good Job...
Vocals have an interesting tone. you deliver well and with passion. Your pitch is fine and lyric values are strong good use of hook lines
GOOD JOB!!

MIX: works well everything is in balance nice eqs and appropriate
compression values. Drums sound fine down through net. This is a great sound I hope this goes well for you... Good Luck

SOUNDS LIKE... i dont care It just sound good!!!
Reviewed by: billnielson from Sydney, Nsw, Australia



Yaaa, Somebody liked us..  Grin  Wink

Dave
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« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2007, 03:38:00 AM »

Whoa, now that is what I call a review!   Nice.  Cool
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Paulo
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« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2007, 09:31:17 AM »

Nice review, thanks for sharing.
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« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2009, 12:07:07 PM »

Guys,
I'm revewing my collabs here and wondering if there was an APE for this tune. At that time I was heal and I'd like to have a full ape if possible.
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« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2009, 08:11:07 PM »

Guys,
I'm revewing my collabs here and wondering if there was an APE for this tune. At that time I was heal and I'd like to have a full ape if possible.

Just saw this Paulo. I'll get you one.  Smiley I also have 'Devil May Care' (Break With Protocol) remix with Todd on drums. That's killer too!!
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r4m
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« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2009, 10:49:47 PM »

This is still one of my all time favs! Cool Cool Cool
I'll take an ape download on this as well. Evil
I still can't believe the hit it took on garageband!
Must have had a lame crowd doing the reviews at that time! Angry

BTW.....Cool new avatar Dave! Sure beats the fro!!! Grin Grin Evil Evil
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Studioplayer
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« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2009, 11:01:28 PM »

Screw Garageband. It's also one of my all time favourites. Just the way it all came together and the trade off between the keys and guitar is just classic.  Smiley Cool
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CosmicDolphin
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« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2009, 11:48:28 PM »

Why what happened at Garageband ?
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« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2009, 11:52:38 PM »

See my above post in Orange. Basically Garageband sucks for reviews. Always had. Just other musicians looking to diss your work. Not worth my time.  Smiley
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« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2009, 06:06:07 PM »

Paulo & Bill. An ape for ya. Smiley

I still smile every time I listen to that middle solo. You guys took it to another level. What a fun tune this was and it's sure to be a classic.  Cool

Also 'Devil May Care' A shortened version of the solo part but with Todd on drums. A very cool version as well.

Can be found here. http://www.musicianscollaboration.com/forum/index.php?topic=2800.0

* BreakWithProtocol_Master.ape (41368.63 KB - downloaded 138 times.)

« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 06:21:19 PM by Studioplayer » Logged

 
Paulo
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« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2009, 07:21:35 PM »

Much thanks, Dave... I got it now, never had the full file... Love this tune  Smiley
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