Musicians Collaboration Studio

Ethical, Kosher, Cool, Acceptable (Insert your adjective)

 

Offline Bobby Watson

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  I have had the situation arise several times now where a composition was addressed by more than one person with different ideas.  And, most of the time, considering the talent around here, and other sites, both takes are worth moving forward with...

Here is my question, considering I, or you, are the composer of an arrangement, is it "insert adjective"  for you to suggest both collaborations move forward, and split the topic?  Yes, yes, there are some considerations that a person might bring up regarding what would happen if one of them was sold or ever went anywhere... I'm a realist, so won't get off into that discussion. However, my opinion is that if you are the owner of the music, you can allow anyone to take a shot at it.. As long as you were up front about what is going on...

It might (would) be interesting to see what kinds of directions a situation like that went....

I'm soliciting comments. But, not a heated discussion.. I think, I've already answered myself as far as a personal opinion....

The floor is now open..
BW@


Offline Letizia

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sure, it's ok to do two versions if you inform the participants before they donate the bulk of their time. by being up front, you're giving them a chance to back out.

i'm wondering if there's something deeper to your question cos as is, it seems pretty straight forward and i suspect most, if not all, direct answers will be in agreement with your opinion.

the grey area for me is where one does multiple versions to avoid hurting someone's feelings. personally, i'd rather get my feelings hurt than waste my time as a result of politeness. having said that, i can't fault someone for doing this... even though i think it's a copout. it ain't always easy saying no thank you to an idea or submission, but it's better than stringing people along or giving them false hope by not deciding. 

by the way you phrased the question, you're probably already aware that it's not a good idea to do multiple versions without informing people. no better way to let people know you're taking them for granted and don't appreciate the time and/or skills they're donating. keep in mind, this is coming from someone who's long past the thrill of simply being involved in a project. for some music newbies and born agains, that thrill is enough regardless of the circumstances.

also keep in mind these opinions are related to the donation of time and ideas. if you're paying $, the rules/ethics change. afaic, as long as you pay, other than altering the part beyond recognition, do what you like.


Offline Bobby Watson

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No, not a hidden agenda. Or, the inability to say no thank you.

In truth, being mainly a composer, I find it interesting that a lyric and melody can take a song in a such a completely different direction. Basically removing a good portion of the similarity, from the original arrangement. Good case in point, is the recent post that I made "When the Sun Go Down... And, the reason I brought the subject up....

There are two honestly good ideas for moving forward. And, I'd be interested in seeing where both go.. However, I don't have any ambitions past that interest, at least for my part... It's still, after 58 years, just because I enjoy the music...
BW@


Offline Letizia

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excellent attitude. after years of reading your posts and getting to know you, it's easy to know you have no hidden agenda or inability to say no thanks. just thought i mighta been missing something.

fwiw, even though i'm talking to you, everything after the two initial comments are just general statements and thoughts. 

all this reminds me, i still need to send you my version of Doorz and one of the jazzier tunes that was inspired by another one of your tracks. sure is easy to forget things.

and yes, absolutely, lyric and melody can completely change a song. Jazz, specifically Bebop, and the Beatles are two great examples of that.


Offline jeff

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I've never had a problem with multiple versions of my stuff.  I actually encourage it.

"Cop out"?..."Being Polite"?...maybe, but its more the fact that I tend to re-record my own stuff 2-3 times. Each time, I give 'em a new twist, change the genre, etc.

Sometimes a contribution will fit into the scheme of what have in mind; other times not.  In those instances, I have no issue with someone developing things in their own direction.

I like hearing those intrepretations.  I know I'll enjoy them even more, later in life, when I've grown weary of my version. :)

Jeff


Offline NickT

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I don't mind a couple of versions as long as they don't fragment the energy of the song moving forward.

I have seen some songs completed with two versions. I have also seen people lose interest when another version starts.

I guess that would be the chance one takes.

I know I have followed songs to completion when the melody was nothing like what was floating around in my brain. I enjoy those songs from a detached perspective, not feeling they are really mine.

With that, I feel as long as you are up front with the collaborators, it's all good.

Ciao,

Nick
NickT

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www.AintTV.com

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Offline Gerk

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The more the merrier I say :)

I just had a discussion a couple of days ago with a friend of mine who runs a recording studio of his own (nice studio actually!! makes mine look pretty dingy heh) .. he is also a songwriter.  He wrote and recorded acountry album last year just for fun.  A BIG departure for him as he usually does heavier type stuff.  The neat thing is that now a lot of the local bands have approached him about doing covers of all his country material in different genres and he happily embraced it.  There are now punk/ska, rock and top 40 versions of the country songs that are selling more copies than his original country version and the wrtier is a happy man, even though this was not his intention in the least bit.

Long story short ... I think that with indie music like ours more is better most times.  As Nick said as long as it doesn't hurt the project i think it's a very good thing.

Mark


Offline CurtisDowney66

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I think 2 versions of a song can be good at times, but I don't usually like to do it.  Mostly because I felt I was kinda burned on a 2 version song.  I won't mention the song, but it was a long time ago, early in my collaboration experience.  At that time, I felt that the version I was involved in didn't get as much attention as the other version, and I don't mind saying that the other version was probably better.  I just felt that the attention was all on the other version, and I got kinda left out in the cold.  Both versions were completed, but I felt that alot more detail was given to the other version, as far as mix, and overall sound.  Most of the same parts were used for both versions, except one had my vocals and lyrics, and the other had someone else's vocals and lyrics.  In the end, the other version just sounded better, because more attention was given to it.  I was never able to convince the person in charge that the mix on my version was just shotty at best, where the other version ended up sounding great.  I would of liked to have my version sent through the mixer with the same attention as the other, but it never happened.  In a way, I kinda felt like it was waisted lyrics.  It's always hard for me to let go of a set of lyrics, and in the end that is what ultimately happened.
So what I am saying is, 2 versions are great, as long as the same detail and hard work is put into both versions.
Curtis


Offline Tacman7

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I've run into this myself, I'm of the more is better school of thought.

If I had 15 versions out there it would be a better chance that "I" would be get discovered, My Big Break.

Yeah that's the ticket.

But seriously folks...

I think it would be impolite to post my version if someone already has their version up or expressed intent, I ran into that recently. I just put it on the back burner for a while and well I need to post it now because the other version is finished now. A bit behind I am.

I'm for multiple versions, I just don't think they need to be up at the same time.



Offline Bobby Watson

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Maybe, I need to clearify....

I'm not interested in "like" versions of the same song (music/lyric/style). The case I'm working with right now, is actually one of my compositions, done in two different styles, with different lyrics... In fact, if you didn't listen to them back to back, you'd probably not pay that much attention to it being basically the same progression.

I certainly am not for putting one set of performers against another for a "like" collaboration.. Those are called contests... And, while they have their place, it's not the normal intent here, or at my studio.
BW@


Offline jeff

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Maybe, I need to clearify....

I'm not interested in "like" versions of the same song (music/lyric/style). The case I'm working with right now, is actually one of my compositions, done in two different styles, with different lyrics... In fact, if you didn't listen to them back to back, you'd probably not pay that much attention to it being basically the same progression.

I certainly am not for putting one set of performers against another for a "like" collaboration.. Those are called contests... And, while they have their place, it's not the normal intent here, or at my studio.
BW@

If I ended up with two unique, distictive songs, I don't see where there would be any ethical dilemma at all.  I personally may not be enthusiatic about (or interested in) working on both songs.  In that case I'd want that person to hash out the details themselves.

I offer my ideas freely with no long range agenda for the finished recordings. In either case (new vs similar version), I'd be flattered that my core idea sparked other people's creativity.  In general, that is the reason I am here.

Jeff


Offline Benny

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The way I understand it, the credits for songwriting go to the person(s) who writes the lyrics and/or the melody. That's the way the industry defines it, I'm pretty sure.

Changing the arrangement, instruments and chords progressions are part of the arrangement credit, which is identified with a particular recording of a song. It is a totally separate from the songwriting.

If anyone knows differently, I would be interested in reading about it.

Benny


 

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