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Vincent

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Interesting to read CD.

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Ive read a couple of mixing books since then and have improved drastically since I did mix for that competition.

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What I also learned is that the person or people picking winning mixes dont always get irt right either...sometimes I see mixes that shouldnt be in the top few mixes so it makes me wonder how much the peron judging actually knows as well.

Not really talking about Mike Seinor however more so on a few other competitions i was involved in...I could see why a few of the top mixes were picked however Im left scratching my head at some of the choices for top mixes though...some are just not that good...so I cant take one persons word for what sounds good anymore...im not sure if the judges know whats good sometimes.

Not talikng about Mike though...he seems to know what hes talking about.



Offline CosmicDolphin

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Ive read a couple of mixing books since then and have improved drastically since I did mix for that competition.

Did you read Mike's ?  It's very good.  Gives you a whole solid structure to work through from top to bottom. i must confess there's things in there that I didn't really bother with in every mix and just kinda of threw them together a little hap-hazardly. Hopefully I can get everything to sound consistantly good following the structure so I don't 'miss' anything.

That competition was the last mix I did before I shipped all my gear into storage but I read the book to pass the time and will read it again when I have my new studio set up at the next house.  Persoanlly having seen Charles Dyes 'Mix It Like a Record' which cost $100 and read Mike's  ' Mixing Secrets For the Small Studio ' for $26  I feel like asking Mr Dye for a refund, the much cheaper book is far more informative.

CD
We never finish a mix... we simply abandon them.
You can't polish a turd, but you can always spray paint it GOLD
Great songs are not written, they are re-witten


Offline Argle

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As for EQ: I often have multiple EQs in the mastering chain (before and after the compressors), and I seldom get along with just one or two compressors. Which compressor(s) I use also depends heavily on the song and on the mix.

I don't use EQ for mastering.  Seems to me if you have an EQ problem it's better to address it in the mix.  In fact, I don't really do any "mastering" of any kind, other than a limiter for volume increase.


Offline CosmicDolphin

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LCR panning is another poor practice (again IMO, of course). I listened to a couple of songs at work today, and some of them were mixed that way. They sound really strange and unpleasant on head phones. I would not recommend doing that at all. Your mileage may vary.



I first used L-C-R on one of Doc's songs "Oh No"  , and a number of other songs after -  quite interesting to try and I think it has fairly solid technical reasons why people use it. I used Haas delays to pan opposite  the hard panned instruments.

Be interesting to know if you find the same unpleasantness on headphones as  the other.

When I get set up again I'm getting mono speaker to mix on as well as the main monitors, see if I can take my results up a notch  ;D

CD

Mix is here.. http://www.musicianscollaboration.com/forum/index.php?topic=6636.0
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 04:25:17 PM by CosmicDolphin »
We never finish a mix... we simply abandon them.
You can't polish a turd, but you can always spray paint it GOLD
Great songs are not written, they are re-witten


Offline CosmicDolphin

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As for EQ: I often have multiple EQs in the mastering chain (before and after the compressors), and I seldom get along with just one or two compressors. Which compressor(s) I use also depends heavily on the song and on the mix.

I don't use EQ for mastering.  Seems to me if you have an EQ problem it's better to address it in the mix.  In fact, I don't really do any "mastering" of any kind, other than a limiter for volume increase.

Except when you're trying to get 10 songs to sound like they belong together on a CD...That's when mastering eq comes in handy  8)

CD
We never finish a mix... we simply abandon them.
You can't polish a turd, but you can always spray paint it GOLD
Great songs are not written, they are re-witten


Vincent

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I agree about the "Mix It Like A Record" video...its good for beginners...it gets you starting.

For intermediate and above mixers (Like most of us) it didnt offer much.

Knowing all the plugins he was using in video is priceless though...definately worth $100 to find out what plugs these guys are using.

Good plugs=good/better mixes...thats the truth.

Also having song tracked in studio with nice gear and unlimited top of line plugs makes mixing much easier...I think a lot of us could do a nice job if we had the tools to do it.

 8)


Offline CosmicDolphin

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Good plugs=good/better mixes...thats the truth.


Not necessarily, I've heard plenty of poor mixes done with expensive plugins and great mixes by folks who only use the plugins that come with the DAW.  Plugins aren't usually the weakest link in the chain because there's so much good free stuff out there now you don't have to use nasty sounding plugs. ( Mike often does the Mix Rescue with mostly free or cheap plugins if you read it regularly )

Also having song tracked in studio with nice gear and unlimited top of line plugs makes mixing much easier...I think a lot of us could do a nice job if we had the tools to do it.

For tracking it could make a big difference having all the nice mics & preamps to record with , but for mixing the main benefit would be the quality of the acoustics more than the plugins or monitors.

CD
We never finish a mix... we simply abandon them.
You can't polish a turd, but you can always spray paint it GOLD
Great songs are not written, they are re-witten


Vincent

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There are definately some good free plugs out there...I use them myself.

Im thinking about getting a UAD card though...I want to try those plugins...LA2A and the fairchild 670 ect.

I cant seem to find any free plugins for LA2A and other plugins like that...I searched with no luck yet.

EDIT:...just downloaded Optron 3A free plugin from phoenixflight site...opto-electric design
similar to that found in hardware devices like LA-2A or LA-3A.

http://phoenixinflightaudio.blogspot.com/

« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 04:08:47 PM by Vincent »


Offline CosmicDolphin

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I cant seem to find any free plugins for LA2A and other plugins like that...I searched with no luck yet.


Not tried them , but give these a go - the Antress Modern plugins have alot of fans


http://www.untidymusic.com/wordpress/vst-plugins/free-limiter-fx/free-vst-plugin-leveling-amplifier-limiter/

http://www.dancetech.com/item.cfm?threadid=4130&lang=0

( BTW I have the focusrite Liquidmix with all the eq & compressor plugs you could want and no CPU load , pretty great value if you get the Liquidmix16 ...Don'tt know how it compares to the UAD)

CD
We never finish a mix... we simply abandon them.
You can't polish a turd, but you can always spray paint it GOLD
Great songs are not written, they are re-witten


Vincent

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Thanks...I will check those out.

I think I may have tried those plugins years ago however my old computer couldnt handle the CPU...time to download and try them again.



Offline Mr. Mom

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Here's a totally moronic question from a total moron. ::)

What's the difference between mixing and mastering?
Damn it Jim! I'm a WRITER - not a Doctor!!


Vincent

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Masteing is making the song CD or album ready

Basically taking the mix and trying to get it up to commercial Album/CD standards.

From what Im reading "Real" mastering is pretty technical however they probably have software programs to do most of the tech side of it...Im guessing they do.

Programs like sequia and the like.

http://www.magix.com/us/sequoia/



Offline stoman

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John, mixing and mastering are two different tasks usually done by two different people in the "real world".

Basically (pre-)mastering means taking a mix and making it sound consistent and "loud" using sum compression and equalization (and some more detailed techniques, if necessary). The plain mix should usually not have any sum procession at all and thus have a large range of dynamics (i.e. the difference between the lowest and the highest volume peaks throughout the song should not be too small on average). So the mix will sound rather low in terms of volume and loudness.

Compressing the material will decrease that dynamic range, making the mix sound tighter and denser. Since compression also reduces the volume, the compressed material is then brought back to the original peak volume, but the result will sound louder than the original mix since the density is more consistent. 

There is much more to mastering, but that's the basic goal of pre-mastering a song.

The whole mastering task though is not just dealing with one separated song but with a whole album, so mastering also includes bringing the songs in a decent order that "works", and adjusting all the songs to a consistent level.

Mastering an album without an EQ would be impossible because if the songs on an album have completely different frequency response characteristics the album would not sound coherent.

Anyway, for us hobby guys mastering usually just means sum compression to make the song competitive in terms of loudness and punchiness.

Regards,
  Steffen
Always looking for opportunities to mix your songs. Feel free to ask!
My Introductory Post


Offline stoman

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Some of the Antress freebies are quite nice. Not comparable with pro plugins IMO - or even with the hardware they intend to mimic, but definitely worth trying. Lost Angel can be nice on vocals, e.g. - but it always depends on your song material, of course.

Regards,
  Steffen

Always looking for opportunities to mix your songs. Feel free to ask!
My Introductory Post


Offline stoman

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Good plugs=good/better mixes...thats the truth.
I have to disagree here. IMO it's best to learn with the on-board tools of a DAW and not start looking for "better" tools before you are able to get a decent mix using that gear.

In general I'd even say better (= more complicated) plugins often decrease the quality of a newbie's mix as they don't know how to handle it. This especially holds for tools like compressors/limiters or reverbs.

Once you know what all the parameters mean and how they work, it is, of course, desirable to get higher quality tools. But you don't learn how to drive a car on a Ferrari. ;)

Quote
Also having song tracked in studio with nice gear and unlimited top of line plugs makes mixing much easier...I think a lot of us could do a nice job if we had the tools to do it.
Again, this is not true for most hobby mixers IMO. Most will be swamped by the arsenal of tools and not know how to use them correctly.

But I agree that it would be nice to have the possibilities - us boys always want new toys. :)

Regards,
  Steffen
Always looking for opportunities to mix your songs. Feel free to ask!
My Introductory Post


 

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